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Posts posted by Alan_S

  1. Peter, you are a champ!  It all falls into place now. I assume it's the requirement of the SHA-2 signing support patch, 4474419. I didn't make the connection between the requirement of a Windows patch and TrustedInstaller.

    Apart from the annoyance of the 2 minutes virtual standstill I was concerned about not knowing what was (perhaps) being installed but now I know what's happening I suppose I can live with it until making the dreaded leap to Windows 10.  Or an iMac, perhaps Linux...

    Anyway, thank you all!


  2. The parent is services.exe, which has parent wininit.exe.

    That doesn't sound as if it is coming from EAM, at least not directly. But the fact remains that it only runs when EAM is started, either manually or on Windows start-up.

    I'm not familiar with Process Hacker but I documented screenshots.  I also had debug logging turned on - perhaps that can shed some light?  I'll PM the lot to you , GT500, referring to this thread.

    I also ran an experiment.   I have a collection of old image copies and did the following:

    • Restored the C drive to 2017-12-21
    • Disconnected the network to prevent any automatic updating
    • Started Windows (and thereby EAM) – TrustedInstaller.exe did NOT launch
    • Turned off EAM automatic updating, connected the network and restarted Windows
    • Clicked EAM 'Update Now' and permitted the computer restart request
    • On the restart completing, TrustedInstaller.exe DID launch

    So, in spite of the parentage of TrustedInstaller.exe, I think this says that the problem does involve EAM - something that has changed in the last couple of years...

    Continued, restoring to other old image copies and found

    • 2019-06-02 the problem (i.e. TrustedInstaller.exe getting launched) did not exist
    • 2019-06-23 it did

    Between these dates (on 2019-06-10) EAM updated itself to 2019.5.0.9476 . 

    Then, yet a further experiment:  I re-installed EAM to see if TrustedInstaller.exe gets launched in a freshly installed environment with "as installed" settings.  Yes, it does.


  3. For a long time I've noticed that, on start-up, both my computers are very sluggish for the first minute or two.  Investigation points to EAM startup:  The sluggishness doesn't occur if “Start on Windows startup” is disabled, but then does on starting EAM manually.  The 'culprit' appears to be TrustedInstaller.exe running on EAM starting.  I investigated this morning using Process Explorer, Task Manager and a stopwatch and got the following:

    09:13:20 TrustedInstaller started.
    09:15:00 TrustedInstaller ended its chore (i.e. no cpu being used)
    09:26:00 (about) TrustedInstaller terminated
    Task Manager reported that TrustedInstaller used 40 sec CPU.

    It has nothing to do with EAM updating as I've turned off auto update.
    Naturally, I've run a Malware Scan and nothing was detected.

    Of course, my question is whether this is normal or not.

    And if it is normal, what is TrustedInstaller installing?

    OS is Windows 7 Pro, 32 bit

  4. My apologies for jumping aboard, but this happened to me too 2019-06-19 on both my computers. Later Firefox updates went OK, but today (2019-07-22) it happened again, when updating FF from 68 to 68.0.1 This time I had debug logging activated. Events were as follows:

    Turned on debug logging
    EAM updated itself (hadn't used the computer for several days)
    13:03 Started Firefox but did nothing with it (home page is a local html file)
    13:08 Got the update offer pop-up. Clicked “Download Update”
    13:10 Restarted Firefox: it does the actual update on restarting
               Got the EAM BB warning .
               The ”Will quarantine in xx seconds” text seemed to stay at “in 6 seconds”
               Clicked “Wait, I think this is safe” and Firefox started
    13:11 Closed Firefox and turned off EAM debugging
    13:13 Restarted the computer.

    Computer is an old HP EliteBook 8440p running under Windows 7 Pro, 32-bit
    Debug logs sent as described above, referring to this post.

  5. Sorry, a

    14 hours ago, Alan_S said:

    Oh yes, as I've mentioned in 'notes' in the material I sent, I've since discovered that the issue can also occur on log list entries that will try to launch a daughter window that doesn't have a sidebar. 

    Sorry, the above should read  "... try to launch a daughter window that doesn't have a scrollbar. "

  6. I've sent you some logs by PM.

    Perhaps the reason you couldn't reproduce it was Windows.  I doubt you are using Win 7 32 bit...  Having said that, I've found that sometimes, very rarely, It does work OK for me so perhaps you were in luck!

    Oh yes, as I've mentioned in 'notes' in the material I sent, I've since discovered that the issue can also occur on log list entries that will try to launch a daughter window that doesn't have a sidebar. 

  7. Some good news and some sad news.

    The good news is that the UI response failure I reported right at the beginning has been fixed by version 2019.2.0.9269

    The sad news is that it hasn't fixed the 'overlay' problem - see above post of December 9, 2018.

    I've looked into this further and narrowed it down:

    The issue seems to concern the 'Logs' section, when selecting 'View Details' for an entry that will cause the daughter pane to have a scrollbar. In practice this only appears to be the case for an 'Updates' entry.

    The following will demonstrate the problem:

    • Launch the UI by clicking the EAM icon in the notification area, a.k.a. system tray.
    • Click the blue 'Logs' box (not the sidebar icon).
    • Mark an 'Update' entry in the list presented and click 'View Details'. The daughter pane is not launched and the UI is unresponsive, presumably waiting until the (invisible) daughter pane is closed.
    • There's probably a window behind the UI. Click this and then click the UI window. The part of the daughter pane that overlays the window behind the UI now appears - see post of December 9, 2018.  I mention this simply as something that might aid fault finding. In practice it's superfluous.


    • To display the whole daughter pane, click any window on the desktop (start something if the UI was all that was on the desktop) and swipe it over the UI. Magic! .

    And a couple of observations:

    • The issue only occurs one time per UI launch. Having once got it working, other entries launch the daughter pane correctly.
    • It only seems to occur when launching 'Logs' by clicking the blue box and appears to work properly if launched from the sidebar.

    Now, I realise that this problem is a bit esoteric and that indeed, the vast majority never look at the logs. And, you may ask, “What's he whinging about? He's found two ways to bypass the problem”. True, but others might not be so tenacious in delving into it and most would simply give up. Also, although I can't find any case other than the above, who knows? And what might lie in wait in the future?

    Look at it as a suggestion to improve the product. Surely it ought to be relatively simple to fix?

  8. Reporting that the situation hasn't occurred for me since the shower of incidents mid December. That's nearly 10 weeks.  I haven't noticed any announcement that sounds like a fix, neither in the beta forum nor the Change Blog (though perhaps it's hidden under “Improved stability”) but something must have happened.   It took over 6 months but, as the Bard of Avon said, “All's well that ends well”!

    Thank you all who have got this to happen!

  9. I wanted to export the settings.  I didn't examine the folder suggesed by the tool very carefully, but saw it where I had exported previously so clicked the OK-button.


    Expecting the name to be today's date, I looked for the backup but couldn't find it. So, tried again and saw that the tool wasn't suggesting a unique folder name but an existing folder – not the latest even, but one from 2016: EAM_2016-11-28, which apparently got overwritten (see 'Date modified').


    What I would expect is that the suggestion would be a new folder and I believe that this was what it did when I used it last. And if one already existed, that either a suffix would be added (e.g. EAM_yyyy-mm-dd-01) or that the user would be warned that he/she was about to overwrite it unless changed.

    Now I know what happens I will be a bit more careful, but existing data should't get overwritten.   If I've done something wrong then please tell me!  And yes, it's high time for a cleanup...  


  10. Apologies for the belated response - been a bit busy.  In Windows 7, the basic DirectX support is version 11.0. Apparently, the full version of 11.1 is supported by Win 8.1 but https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/chuckw/2012/11/13/directx-11-1-and-windows-7/ says that “Portions of the 'DirectX 11.1 Runtime' are being made available on Windows 7 Service Pack 1 via the Platform Update for Windows 7 Service Pack 1 and Windows Server 2008 R2 Service Pack 1 (KB 2670838)”   https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2670838/platform-update-for-windows-7-sp1-and-windows-server-2008-r2-sp1 describes what KB2670838 does.

    KB2670838 was installed January 25th 2016.  And that seems to be as good as it gets unless I upgrade to Win 8.1 or Win 10. 

    But the UI worked perfectly until  2018.11.0.9073.

  11. Regarding my post above "Just taken a look at it and it's a bit different."  Of course it's different!  I was looking at it on my other computer (the Dell).  The HP is still as in my previous experiment.  It's a little bit faster than the Dell.  Sorry, I wasn't paying attention but it's getting a bit late this side of the pond!

    As to the motherboards.  Neither are Asus.  Speccy says the manufacturers are Dell and HP respecively.  Both machines are ancient.  The Dell is from November 2007 and there is no newer BIOS.  The HP is from 2010.  Perhaps the installed BIOS is not the best, but the problem surfaced with build 9073.  The UI worked fine previously.  There appears to be a couple of slightly newer versions but I don't understand (on the HP site) which would be correct.  To be honest I'm loathe to attempt an update it as once it's changed, it seems there's no going back.     

  12. So do I stapp. With a proper a mechanical switch too...

    To business:

    It's very early days but the good news is that I haven't experienced any freezes at start-up with build 9073, installed a week ago.

    The bad news is that I've experienced 3 freezes during normal activity: last Wednesday, Friday and Sunday. I've sent a dump for each of these to [email protected] asking that it be forwarded to you, GT500. Also, a doc file for each, describing the scenarios. Were I a developer I'd want as much material as possible, but I leave it to you to decide what your people need. I really hope they can find out what's going on and fix it, as a freeze every other day is just not viable. Or perhaps the problem is that my two computers and EAM are simply not compatible.

    I'm going to try Marko's advice and have debug logging enabled continually. It does agree with my own experience when all this started (see my original post). But even if it works, I can't accept it as a solution. Just a very temporary workaround until the developers fix it properly.  Fingers crossed...

  13. I did a very simple and brief test, clicking Settings and then Advanced. a2guard is in action very little: now and then a brief flash of 1 - 4% but that's all. a2start uses CPU continually when in Settings: about 1 – 3%, most of the time exactly 1.92%. This is what I did:

    Start Win
    Launch UI but do nothing                                       a2start 1.5 – 3% continually, mainly 1.92%     a2guard zero
    13:43 Click Settings                                                a2start 1.5 – 3% continually, mainly 1.92%     a2guard briefly 4%
    13:45 Click Advanced – no response                  a2start 1.5 – 3% continually, mainly 1.92%     a2guard zero
    13:48 Click PX then EAM still no response         a2start 1.5 – 3% continually, mainly 1.92%     a2guard zero
    13:49 Get reply                                                         a2start 1.5 – 3% continually, mainly 1.92%     a2guard zero
    Close UI

    Then, a look at logs.

    Start Win
    Launch UI and do a Quick scan
    14:15 Click Logs
    Hightlight the scan and click View Details
    No response                                                      a2start zero           a2guard zero
    14:18 Click the Process Explorer window then the UI window and the reply pop-up appears!
               The 'other' window doesn't have to be PX:   Notepad, Windows Explorer - anything will do the trick.   

    But look at the attached pop-up screenshot.   Note that the reply pop-up is not complete: only what overlays the window behind it (Process Explorer here). The rest can be coaxed out of hiding by moving the window behind, to increase the 'shadow', in this case moving Process Explorer right. Well, it's a workaround but it can be tricky with a cluttered desktop. If the whole pop-up can't be retrieved there's another problem: it has to be closed before anything else can be done and how to do that when neither the Close button nor the 'X' in the top right hand corner are accessable?

    Two other observations:

    • When waiting for a reply from 'View details' the UI window is dead to the user. Can't move it on the desktop and can't close it.
    • It appears that the problems only occur when a new log entry is in the list, even if the 'View details' concerns an older entry. Once past the hurdle it seems to work normally, at least until next time Logs is invoked, even if there are no new entries. 

    Sorry, I see that this is all a bit incoherent. But it's not easy to invoke and observe on one computer and at the same time document on another computer!  But perhaps it's of use.

    The bottom line is that a2guard uses very little CPU and only briefly.   a2start uses CPU continually when in Settings - almost all the time 1.92% but almost nothing when trying to look at logs, even when waiting for a reply that should be instantaneous.




  14. This occurs in 2018.11.0.9073   Debug logs sent via PM.   Didn't occur with the previous stable build.

    When clicking something on the UI, the response is often really slow (perhaps minutes) or not at all. Sometimes it can respond with 'persuasion'. For example 'Settings' on the overview: The result can sometimes be coaxed forth by moving the UI window on the desktop, if this is possible (sometimes the UI gets locked and then a Windows restart is the only way out).  Viewing log entries is particularly problematic.

    The following is a crude log of a session today, 2018-12-07, observed on my HP EliteBook 8440p, Windows 7 Pro 32-bit

    09:40 Started Windows
    09:42 Launched UI (clicked the icon in the notification area)
    09:42 Clicked 'About' Nothing happened.
    09:43 Moved the UI window on the desktop: Result of 'About' displays
    09:44 Clicked 'Logs' Nothing happened. Moved the UI and the log list displays.
    But: the UI window is locked. Couldn't mark a log entry to view it
    Couldn't move the UI window on the desktop
    09:47 Couldn't move the mouse cursor to the taskbar. Nor launch any of the desktop shortcuts.
    Since everything is dead, want to invoke BSOD via Right Ctrl / ScrLk / ScrLk on the USB keyboard
    Can't do: it's not plugged in.
    In desperation, plugged it in – immediately everything freed up!
    The result of 'About' is displayed.
    Launched Event Viewer. Nothing pertinent reported.


    09:55 Restarted Windows
    00:56 Ready
    09:57 Launched UI (clicked icon in the notification area)
    Clicked 'About'  Nothing happened.
    09:59 Clicked 'About' again. Still nothing happened.
    Closed UI
    10:00 Launched UI (clicked icon in the notification area)
    Clicked 'Logs' . It launched OK. with top entry highlighted
    Clicked 'View details'
    Sub-window launches, showing results of 'About', not of the top entry
    10:02 Closed the sub-window
    10:03 Highlighted another entry in the log list and clicked view details. Worked fine
    10:05 Returned to the UI overview
    Clicked 'Update now'
    10:06 Update done.
    10:07 Clicked 'Logs'
    In the list, selected the update just done
    Clicked View Details. Nothing happened
    The UI window is locked. Can't move it on the desktop. Can't do anything.
    10:10 Launched a program via its desktop shortcut
    The UI 'thaws', launching a sub-window showing not the results of the update, but of 10:07
    10:13 Closed the UI

    Debug logs supplied cover the above.

    One more thing: When a sub-window has been 'persuaded' to pop up by clicking another window or launching a program, only a bit of it is displayed sometimes. This appears to be an area that is the outline of the other window or that of the program launched.

    Now, all this might just be something to do with my computers rather than a fault in EAM.  If so, I'd be grateful for any tips.


  15. Well, it has happened, though not at start-up. This morning, I was using my EliteBook, which has the current stable version 2018.11.0.9073 (it was never switched to the beta feed), and around 10:40 CET decided it was time for a break. On returning, noted that the screen was black. First assumption was that it was in sleep but the power button was illuminated constantly, not blinking. Couldn't get any response so invoked a BSOD at about 11:08. On restarting, saw (as expected) that a2service.exe had bombed at 10:58:11.

    So, should I send the dump?

    Sadly, there are no debug logs. Ironically, the morning's work was documenting a UI problem and I had temporarily turned off debugging to be able to copy the logs after my break.

    I still have a dump taken when using 2018.11.0.9073 beta on my Dell stationary.  It occurred (2018-12-05) when I set my printer preferences to 'duplex' to print a document.  Would that be of any use, or can I delete it?   

    • Like 1
  16. Sorry, I missed your post of last Monday about the fix now being in the stable version.  I switched to the beta version last Saturday.

    Anyway, the old problem surfaced today under the latest beta, 2018-11.09.2073, when preparing to print a document, setting the printer to duplex printing (I use Apache Open Office and an oldie but goodie Canon "MP730 SmartBase Photo" printer).

    Since the current fix is now stable, I'd prefer to return to the stable fold if that's OK with you.  The problem with being in the beta community when trying to concentrate on a specific issue is that (obviously) other troubles tend to occur, thus muddying the waters.

  17. I updated my stable EAM to the beta version yesterday and have noticed Marko's delays too. They vary: sometimes nothing, sometimes very noticeable.

    Also, I encounter serious delays with viewing details of a log entry, though sometimes the response is instantaneous.

    Example 2018-12-02 11:04

    PC restarted
    Clicked 'Logs'
    Selected an entry and clicked View Details (Response Instantaneous)
    Closed the UI and reopened

    Clicked 'Logs'
    Selected an entry and clicked View Details (Response 2 mins 45 secs)
    Backed to 'Home'
    Clicked 'Logs'
    Selected an entry and clicked View Details (Response 45 secs)
    Backed to 'Home'
    Clicked 'Logs'
    Selected an entry and clicked View Details.  View Details button turned blue and then back to white.  Nothing happening
    Started Process Explorer. No CPU used by the a2.. processes. After a while closed PE and immediately got the details pop-up.
    Coincidence or related?
    Total response time 5 mins.

    Oh yes, later (sadly after disabling Debug Logging) clicked “About” got the result after about 25 secs.

    I've sent the debug logs via PM.

    Win 7 32-bit
    EAM version 2018.11.0.9069 updated 10:06:45
    Sphinx Windows 10 Firewall Control
    Time zone CET

  18. Very, very good news!  I'll keep an eye on the beta releases.

    Just one question:  I assume I get the beta release by changing "Update feed" in the settings to "Beta" and then the Update will fix it,  Right?  But when the beta version is released as "Stable", how do I get back to that state?  Simply set "Update feed" as stable or should I un-install the beta first?

    Santa Claus has come early...

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