iWarren

Windows 7 becoming obsolete?

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I've seen all over the internet, news articles cropping up, that say generally the same thing.

That Microsoft has been saying that Windows 7 isn't as secure as Windows 10.

Like this article here for example:

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/242795-microsoft-warns-windows-7-dangerously-insecure-2017

 

Quote

Meanwhile, Microsoft says Windows 10 is the most secure OS it has ever released.

It includes biometric login support, application sandboxing, and advanced threat protection via Windows Defender.

These features make Windows 10 capable of repelling some threats it hasn’t even been specifically patched for yet.

 

So my question is... is there a legitimate security concern to be worried about with Windows 7,

that if i really want a "secure" system, that I really should update to Windows 10?

or..... is this just a push by Microsoft to scare users into purchasing their new software, and get

as many people hooked as they can, before pushing their "pay as you go" monthly installment plan,

and that spreading this propaganda that Windows 10 is inherently more secure than its

predecessors, will eventually sink in, that a change to Windows 10 is "mandatory" if you want to stay secure.

 

I mean, if the issue is.... that Windows 7 is not capable of adapting to real-time threats... then would not

Emsisoft security fill in for that, doing much what Windows 10 does?

 

Only advantage i could see, might be the sandboxing... but even then, just adding more frameworks, does

not solve security issues, it just obstructs the path, generally until someone finds a way around it. 

Microsofts solution to security, seems to be putting layer upon layer of "safeguards" in the form of frameworks,

that generally just seems to complicate the development process. (correct me if I'm wrong there.)

 

I think what really kills me... is that when they release Windows 7... they push it as being the "bees knees",

that its just better, new and improved, being more secure than its predecessors....

 

and then, after Windows 8 gets a bad rap, and they go into serious recovery mode, and go out of their

way to rebrand Windows 8, and fix some problems.... that all of a sudden, Windows 7 becomes this evil monster

that must be vanquished, and that if you don't jump ship... your computer will fall victim to the 7 hells of earth,

or the Windows version of a step-brother you never wanted.  

 

Its like now that they have created a new version, there's now a huge push to try to discredit everything they worked

for in the past..... it doesn't make sense.  Why would you discredit a version you worked so hard to create?

 

I mean.... i bet you, people would probably pay the same amount of $ for a new version of Windows, just to keep

a steady stream of updates rolling in for Windows 7.   It also begs the question, that just because Windows 10 is here...

does that mean they're not going to give 7 the same love and attention to keep it secure... or if a new flaw crops up...

are they just going to "let it happen", so that then they can just count it as another reason for you to upgrade to Win 10.

 

I just feel a little put out by Microsoft in general.... even though I really do try to stand behind it. For years, I even stood

behind Internet Explorer... before almost forcefully being switched, by an awful beta experience...

 

I would really appreciate some input on this situation, and a focused response, on whether this is a "legitimate" security issue,

or is just a marketing ploy.

 

Thanks!

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What happens when Windows 10 has evolved to the point, that it has becomes so bloated with features we

don't want anymore.  Will Microsoft one day look back on Windows 10 and call it a fat ugly child that nobody wants

and kick it to the curb too, and offer us another alternative?

 

The lack of loyalty to prior products, just seems a bit saddening... that whatever product you do choose with

Microsoft, will one day become obsolete and put out to pasture, because some new pretty OS comes along that

is more attractive and can cook and clean for us.  What ever happened to til' death do us part? 

 

Also, a friend of mine suggested rumors, that Windows 10 is less secure from "big brother", ie Microsoft

or government agencies. With "Call Home" features.

 

Is that the cost of what we pay for security.... we have security from malware, but designed insecurity from

its creators, and law enforcement?  

 

It kind of jogs my memory of a news article i read, about supposedly the NSA paying Microsoft not to use more advanced

forms of RSA encryption, to make it easier for them to crack it.  Whether that was true or not... just kind of seems like

we're kind of being led astray... or being corralled into making a choice that just forces us to pay microsoft on their time table,

and to give up our privacy, when they want it.

 

what happened to the consumers freedom.... to pay, when "they" want it.... and their freedom... to share with the world,

what "they" want to share.   The more I learn about computer security, the more it just seems like its all an illusion,  that there

is no such thing as security..... and we all are at the mercy of some creepy old man behind a curtain.

 

its at this time, someone generally suggests i use some linux distribution, we play a 5 minute musical montage of me learning

linux, and then I spend another 20 years of rediscovering a parallel version of the yellow brick road, that generally leads to the same

place.... a creepy old man behind a curtain.

 

I miss the 90s... when ignorance was bliss, and curtains were brick walls.

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Quote

 

So my question is... is there a legitimate security concern to be worried about with Windows 7,

that if i really want a "secure" system, that I really should update to Windows 10?

 

Its quite simple, with every Windows (or other OS) upgrade bugs are fixed and security measures are improved. As such you can state that Windows 10 is supposed to be more secure than Windows 7. In practical terms though as long as the software you use still supports Windows 7 and as long as Microsoft still supports Windows 7, you're just as safe on Windows 7 as long as you use an adequate security product, keep your software up to date and practice safe surfing.

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is there some inherent architecture though, that Windows 10 has, that makes it invulnerable to security threats though?

The way Microsoft reps are describing it.. at this point in time, you are "at risk", if you don't upgrade to Windows 10.

 

Microsoft has been known to wait long periods of time before releasing security updates, to the point, that some individuals

almost have to force their hand, just to get them to push the security updates out.   So it just seems to me, like they would have

even less motivations to push out security updates for 7 than they did before, especially if they're already touting the insecurities of 7.

 

They might be offering "support" until 2020, but how dedicated and how broad is there team to continue this process?

With the way companies are constantly trying to scale things back, and get more for less, it seems like this would be such an area

they might try to scale back, because its no longer profitable for them.

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As far as I know Windows 7 is safe enough and security updates are being released (as in: there are no disclosed vulnerabilities that have not been fixed).

 

However Windows 10 has some features that Windows 7 lacks (think about SmartScreen or working with SecureBoot), still if it comes to your average trojan or ransomware, it really matters little if you use 7 or 10.

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It as been proven time and again that the user is a more substantial factor (weakest link) in security than the architecture of the operating system or installed protection software.

Quote

Security is all about layers, and not depending on any one technology or approach to detect or save you from the latest threats. The most important layer in that security defense? You! Most threats succeed because they take advantage of human weaknesses (laziness, apathy, ignorance, etc.), and less because of their sophistication.

Krebs on Security

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                      windows_devolution.jpg
 

 

I think that's absolutely true, that the user is often responsible for driving the operating system into dangerous

territory, with unsafe browsing practices.

 

That being said, I think Windows "in general", doesn't really treat the internet like its a potentially dangerous place.

This is evident in all of the default settings of a new installation... that everything comes pre-enabled, with a sort of

"plug and play" mentality, that Windows MUST connect with every device in existance.  Whether its a printer, or some

random wireless network. 

 

Its like this laptop i worked on once, it was set to "Automatically connect" to basically any network with a viable signal,

its that kind of mentality that everything must be connected "out of the box", that really gets people in trouble.

The idea is... they don't want to have to deal with peoples insufficient knowledge for not knowing how to enable these

devices... so they make it so easy a caveman could do it.  

Its like you said queietman7, that... the user is usually at fault, for a few reasons...

 

Security-Functionality-and-Ease-Of-Use-T

 

* Unsafe browsing habits. (allowing javascript, using Flash, using Java, installing 3rd party addons, etc.)

* Uninformed computer usage.   (ie, not setting up user accounts, no passwords, weak passwords, poor decisions running programs, etc.)

* Improper settings configured.  (Allowing NETBIOS, Secondary Login service, print spooler, Remote Access Service, flawed File Permissions, Web Camera enabled, etc)

 

All of these... all come down to just lack of information, and changing your computing habits.

In a way... by allowing all of these things automatically, Microsoft does everyone a disservice, by never learning how to turn on/off the devices you want to run.

They make little to no effort to try to educate people on how to keep their computer secure.... and would rather let the user sit in ignorant bliss during the

installation, watching a progress bar (with no ETA),  and telling everyone "How great these new features are", so that a few years down the road, they can trash it

and call it all rubbish.  

 

I think if you expect people to practice basic security practices, they should make some effort to trying to educate people about them.

People shouldn't have to go to college or read a "Windows for dummies" manual to understand how it all works... there should be integrated tutorials, and

Windows Help and MSDN doesn't quite cut it.

 

I think the "real" issue, comes down to Windows design... instead of trying to cover 1 root design problem with a dozen patches, it should all be redesigned

from the ground up... i mean look at the Windows folder, there is still 16-bit files cluttering it up. lol and in my opinion, their cross compatability for

32-bit / 64-bit just makes development and usage in general a complete mess... i mean, you don't see people using 16-bit applications anymore,

nor do we have architectures that serve it anymore.  they made a decision to drop support for it, and they really need to do the same, so they can

let go of an old architecture and just move on.

 

Microsoft lost its way with Windows 8, going off of some really bad advice that PC's were dead and anybody who is anybody uses a smartphone or tablet.

That didn't stop them from pushing it on us... and we were expected to "adapt" to the new design change... and then once it became concrete, that it was

a flop, they actually stopped and listened to its users and redesigned it... it hasn't been so long though since Windows 8's release in retrospect. lol I just find

it really hard to believe, that there has been some exponential leap in architecture, for them to make claims that 10 is better than 7... When 10 is more or less

8 with a new paint job, a new name, and some additional features and services.   According to Steve ballmer, Windows 8 was the wave of the future, with its

new touch-screen "panel" design.... Just finding it really hard now days, to trust that Microsoft is being "genuine" with us.

microsoft-genuine-software-mar.jpg

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To be honest, I think Microsoft does a reasonable job when it comes to security. For example, if I want to use a Windows 10 VM out of the box for malware removal, I always need to tweak it in order to make sure my samples run uninterrupted. 

As for bugs, any software piece has them, you can't just redesign a platform like Windows to get rid of them because you'll just have other bugs: software is coded by human beings, human beings make mistakes. :)

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I think you can redesign something like Windows, but in this case,

it'd be best to start almost from scratch... i realize it'd be a gigantic undertaking, but perhaps

that is really the next leap forward for computer processing, is to realize a closer relationship

between hardware and software, where the hardware and software are "meant" specifically for

each other.  Instead of a "one size fits all" kind of approach to software architecture, where

there can be a dozen different ways to program 1 specific task, and not all of them desirable

or even correct.

 

That would require a more intimate relationship, between the chip designers, and the software

developers. 

 

It seems to me that, software is becoming needlessly more and more complex... when it should be

getting simpler.  Its this mentality though that... in order to create new secure and compatible features,

that we should keep adding on layer after layer of architecture, forcing the developer to constantly be

learning new constructs... when most of this should all be taken care of automatically by the compiler.

 

If you look at almost every version of windows.... you always saw, Visual Studio stepping along right

beside them... like they'd improve their editor tools, and it was then demonstrated in Windows versions.

 

So i think, maybe they kind of lost sight of this relationship, that building better tools, allowed them to keep

building a better product.

 

Software is coded by human beings, and yes... people make mistakes, but if they keep working at the same
thing and gain practice.... they inevitably get better at it, or at very least learn their capabilities.  Which is why

you can't just create the core code, and leave it alone, it has to evolve with the rest of the hierarchy.

I think its safe to say, that the core of Windows, probably hasn't gone through much of an overhaul, in a long time,

judging by the appearance of the file structures.

 

I think this is likely why Linux is so successful, is because it takes its ego out of the picture and has let

people view and edit the core, pin pointing its flaws. The way things are going, I think Linux is going to give

Windows a run for its money... and relatively quick like.  As soon as Windows tries their "pay as you go"

service on people, i think you're going to notice a huge impact in attitude.

 

 

 

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Quote

 

That would require a more intimate relationship, between the chip designers, and the software

developers. 

 

That already exists, think Apple. Apple hardware is not safer than Windows, its just less exploited than Windows because it has a smaller user base, the same goes for Linux (examples: look up BashBug/Shell Shock for Linux or FlashBack for OSX).

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i have windows 7 maybe 6,7 years,things are changed alot on internet,i dont advertise adblock softwares,but without ads on diferent sites i cannot remember when i pick last malware for browsing (adware for exc.)Windows 10 is maybe more secure,but windows 7 is easyest for use,but honestly with Virustotal,i dont worry for any kind of malware,i can check anything before install so...no matter what number of OS we use (my opinion)

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