JeremyNicoll

Undraggable window after custom scan

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W8.1, 64bit machine, EIS stable feed - but I can't tell you what version.

I just ran a custom scan of my machine, during which time I had the scan progress window shunted almost off screen.  When it was clear, from reduced fan noise etc that it had finished (and the tab on the taskbar no longer showed a progress bar) I tried to drag the progress window back into view.  I can't.  It simply won't drag at all.

Right-clicking the taskbar icon offered me choices (but not those to move or change the size of the window) including View scan reports -  so I chose that and confirmed that the scan had completed and found nothing.

There's no event log records for the time during which the scan was running.

Clicking the EIS systray icon moves focus to the progress window's taskbar icon, but doesn't bring up the main GUI screen, nor - as far as I can tell - change what's on the undraggable window - but then,  can only see part of its top edge so it's impossible to tell.   Right-clicking the systray icon does produce the usual menu, but clicking things doesn't /seem/ to do anything.

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When I said the taskbar icon didn't offer screen movement /resize options, I'd forgotten that in W8.1 you don't get them unless you right-click on the thumbnail view of the window.  When I looked at the thumbnail I found it looked as shown in screenshot:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/63k2m9d9ice6gzb/20170505 1236 02 (screenshot) thumbnail - app rules.jpg?dl=0

ie the app HAD responded to a click on the systray menu, to show application rules (one of the 'innocent' options that won't do something I can't see/control).


I did then try clicking 'Security Overview' on the systray icon and the thumbnail then looked like:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/geqehytpu9tcgiw/20170505 1236 03 (screenshot) thumbnail - sec overview.jpg?dl=0

which - incidentally - shows something that I see from time to time when I make a routine request to see the Security Overview screen - the righthand blue part gets drawn then there's a few seconds delay before the rest of the screen is drawn.  It's interesting NOW because even several minutes after clicking Security Overview on the systray menu, the thumbnail still doesn't show a fully drawn screen (assuming that thumbnails are calculated when needed, not stored?).  And the off-screen window still cannot be dragged. 

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Aha!  I solved this...   I ran a copy of Nir Sofer's WinExplorer (WinExp.exe) - a tool that shows you information about all the windows that are in existence (many of which are usually off-screen).  In that tool I saw three entries for Emsisoft-owned hierarchies of windows, one named

     Emsisoft Internet Security 2017.4 - About [TABoutEAM]

and the details for it showed co-ordinates for its top left corner that were, misleadingly, quite reasonable for a fully-visible window.  But it wasn't present.  It had already occurred to me that in attempting to drag the off-screen window I might have clicked on the 'Emsisoft' name and caused an About window to be displayed... but I had expected that if that was the case it would have popped up centre-screen (clearly not the case) or been overlaid over the main GUI window and had hoped it would then show up on the thumbnail.   Anyway, WinExp allows you to modify an open window's position, so I made a minor change to the listed-but-invisible window's left co-ordinate, clicked Modify, and it popped up on the centre of my screen.   I clicked its OK button, and then the off-screen undraggable window became draggable again.

Where is the About pane supposed to pop up when "Emsisoft" is clicked?     It needs always to have its dismiss X or OK buttons visible!

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10 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

Where is the About pane supposed to pop up when "Emsisoft" is clicked?

It pops up in the center of the EAM/EIS window, but it isn't large enough to have been visible with the majority of the EIS window off of your screen like in the screenshot.

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Would the developers change that so it pop up in the middle of the screen?  Or doesn't do so at all if it won't be dismissable wherever it pops up?   I mean: I was lucky; I knew enough about what might have been the cause AND had a suitable utility.  Most people would need to sign out or reboot to get around that mystery.

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It might be better to fix any issues that could cause the EAM/EIS window to appear outside of the normal viewing area of the screen.

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> It might be better to fix any issues that could cause the EAM/EIS window to appear outside of the normal viewing area of the screen.

There's no 'issue'' I merely dragged the window mostly off-screen... as I do with all sorts of windows, often.  I'd be very upset if EIS was changed so the window couldn't be dragged like that.   

Personally, as I have the tool I mentioned above, if I fall foul of the 'About' pane's buttons being inaccessible after an accidental click on "Emsisoft", I can fix it.  But users without a similar tool or any idea of what might have happened, cannot.  All I'm suggesting is that you either prevent the pane displaying when it won't be possible to dismiss it, or always place it in the moddle of the screen rather than relative to the main GUI's window position.

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> Would Alt+F4 not close that window for you Jeremy ?

After a quick experiment with the pane visible on-screen, yes it might do.   But the fundamental problem (apart from wondering how many users know about Alt-F4) is that when the About pane has opened on a main GUI screen that's shunted off-screen, you don't know that that's happened.  So why would you press Alt-F4?

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I guess most folk drag a screen downwards almost off screen, which leaves all the x and minimize etc buttons still visible.

Alt+F4 closes the current window so if a user couldn't close a window its a useful thing to know :)

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> guess most folk drag a screen downwards almost off screen, which leaves all the x and minimize etc buttons still visible.

Do they?  I run my machine with the option that makes the taskbar hide itself when it's not in use.  If I drag stuff down there then every time I try to bring the mouse pointer down to try and 'catch' the titlebar of a dragged window, the taskbar pops up and gets in the way.   Dragging stuff to the right - especially with a wide screen - 1600x900 here - works better for me.

But in this case, if you drag the main GUI window downwards and leave it so that the X button etc are visible, then accidentally click on the Emsosoft word (and get the About pane), you a) can't see the About pane, b) the X, minimise buttons etc have no effect when one tries to click them.  Yes, Alt-F4 does seem to fix the problem if of course you first click on the GUI pane (else it shuts whatever else you're working on). 

 

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12 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

There's no 'issue'' I merely dragged the window mostly off-screen... as I do with all sorts of windows, often.  I'd be very upset if EIS was changed so the window couldn't be dragged like that.

I must have misunderstood one of your posts. I thought you had said that the window had moved off the screen on its own during the update process.

 

We generally have the About popup appear in the middle of the window since that's where we expect users to be looking when they open it.

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> I must have misunderstood ... update process

I dragged it off-screen while the scan was running.    What update process?.

> We generally have the About popup appear in the middle of the window

The middle of the window is no use if the window is mainly off-screen.  if the user cannot even see that the About pane has been opened they will not understand why the main window cannot be dragged etc etc.    Also, I had thought that this only happens if you click on 'Emsisoft' but in fact you can click in the white area to the lefthand side of the word Emsisoft and have the same thing happen, in an area that's approximately the same width as the "EM" letters.  So a user who happens to place the mouse pointer there as they try to start a drag will cause the About pane to open and very likely have no idea that they even requested that.

Edited by JeremyNicoll
added ref to 'update process'

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7 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

> I must have misunderstood ... update process

I dragged it off-screen while the scan was running.    What update process?.

My apologies. I didn't go back and skim the posts to refresh my memory as to when the window was moved outside of the visible screen space.

 

7 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

The middle of the window is no use if the window is mainly off-screen.  if the user cannot even see that the About pane has been opened they will not understand why the main window cannot be dragged etc etc.    Also, I had thought that this only happens if you click on 'Emsisoft' but in fact you can click in the white area to the lefthand side of the word Emsisoft and have the same thing happen, in an area that's approximately the same width as the "EM" letters.  So a user who happens to place the mouse pointer there as they try to start a drag will cause the About pane to open and very likely have no idea that they even requested that.

We are considering adding a feature to move the window back into the visible area of the screen when the EAM/EIS window opens and notes that it is outside of the visible screen space. It should be relatively easy to close the window by right-clicking on its icon in the taskbar, and then reopening it.

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> We are considering adding a feature to move the window back into the visible area of the screen when the EAM/EIS window opens

> and notes that it is outside of the visible screen space.

Excellent!

 

> It should be relatively easy to close the window by right-clicking on its icon in the taskbar, and then reopening it.

Do you mean when i had the original problem, or do you mean in the future when the new feature is added?   If the latter, I can't see why one would need it.  If the former: the taskbar icon seems only to refer to the main GUI window, not the superimposed About pane.  At least I assume that because of two things: firstly, the thumbnail image of the window never shows the About pane, and secondly, as soon as I try to right-click the thumbnail (which would normally give one access to the move/minimise etc actions) the thumbnail disappear.  You don't get a menu.

If you meant 'close the main window' when you suggested right-clicking its taskbar icon, that doesn't work even when the main window is entirely visible.  It's as if main-window mouse-clicks/actions are suspended/stacked until the About pane is dealt with.

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22 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

If you meant 'close the main window' when you suggested right-clicking its taskbar icon, that doesn't work even when the main window is entirely visible.  It's as if main-window mouse-clicks/actions are suspended/stacked until the About pane is dealt with.

It looks like the option to close the window when right-clicking on the taskbar icon doesn't work when the About page is opened, so I'll report that to QA.

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> ..tell them to use Alt+F4 then it will be able to be closed  !!

Stapp, I'm sure you said that with a big grin - maybe you just munched an extra juicy piece of grass ;-)     But unless that info is displayed on the GUI the average user will not know to apply it.  It's far better to stop the undismissable pane from being displayed in a stupid place.  

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16 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

It's far better to stop the undismissable pane from being displayed in a stupid place.

Or make it so that it's not modal, and thus it won't block interaction with the rest of the UI. ;)

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