Manjusri108

after update computer won't boot

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Edit: For those who are still having this issue, note that you can work around it by switching to the Delayed update feed so that Emsisoft Anti-Malware downgrades to an older version that does not have this issue. Here's how to do that:

  1. Open Emsisoft Anti-Malware.
  2. Click on Settings in the menu at the top.
  3. Click on Updates in the menu at the top.
  4. On the left, under Update Settings, click on the box to the right of Update feed and select Delayed from the list.
  5. Click on the Update now button on the right side.

___________________________________________________________
 

Hello Libor, thank you for your feedback.

As I'd mentioned, "We're still unable to replicate the issue". Up until just a few minutes ago, we have not been able to replicate this issue at all, whatever we tried, and nobody had been able to provide usable debugging information. Those who were willing to try ended up having the problem go away prior to any information being gathered, so we were left with a problem we could not see to diagnose. Impossible as you might imagine. So no, we're far from asleep, we have just not been able to get any usable data other than "it happens", and that it's with current Emsisoft Anti-Malware, Comodo Firewall, and Windows 7 x64.

By "up until this evening", I mean that I just had a virtual machine with Windows 7 x64, Emsisoft Anti-Malware, and Comodo Firewall (free) lock up well after the desktop was loaded. I'm going to try gathering information if I can, if the problem repeats itself. So, some progress possibly.

I'll post back here with workaround instructions should I find any, and update with fix status as well once that comes.

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> Frank is actively working with you, correct?

I'd hope so, but I haven't heard from him for a while.  I didn't post in this thread to try to get that other problem fixed sooner (because it's not a show-stopper), but because I thought there might be a connection to the hangs you were looking into, if your hangs were to do with file explorer's initialisation of its context menu handler code.

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Hi havredave,

I have a client with this problem as well, yes Windows 7 and Emsisoft (no Commodo FW).

They are keen to have someone from Emsisoft to look at the issue, from what I can see you have not have the chance to gather more information apart from "it happens" etc.

We have three computers down, they are more than happy for Emsisoft staff to look at them, gather more information and come up with a solution.

We're in Sydney UTC +10

Thank you.

Bernardo

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Adding to my original post:

To: [email protected]

Hi there,

We have been hit with the dreaded 2018.3 update on three computers (75 in total).

I've posted on the support thread "after update computer won't boot" by Manjusri108, havredave is the Emsisoft person looking at this matter.

Three computers affected, here is the explanation from the client:

Bernardo,
I am at my wits end with this.  I am so fed up with Emsisoft – you should be able to sue them for damages.

We are at the point where some machines must be shut down as they have ground to a standstill.  About 50% of them don’t come back up.  Of those about 50% can be repaired on startup or using the USB boot memory stick.

Two of these had issues on reboot during emsisoft removal that required about an hour each to run through the repair options.

We now have two machines that we can’t get running, even using startup repair and the USB drive.  One of them says ‘can’t repair this computer’, and the other goes through the windows introductory boot screen, goes to a blue screen and then drops out again.

For these two computers can you either:

1.       Lead me through something else I can try; or

2.       Get someone to come out and fix.

Make that three now!  Another one went while preparing this email.

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Well my theory that is completely lacking of any debugging attempts, was based on the idea of service startups and if comodo loaded and hooked something eam wanted to hook before eam could or not. Say if it did hook fast enough, eam could hang, and if comodo took too long, it would be ok, or vice versa, could be eam hooking and comodo throwing a fit. The best thing to compare at a code level is what exactly was changed between versions, and I assume they have a version repository so that could be reviewed. Could easily be both trying to hook the same thing or something one or the other are both trying to protect.

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@endevite: yes, this I meant by saying Emsisoft programmers should know what they did in the last major EAM update - they should be able to compare code before and after this update to find out. Because on my comps Comodo and EAM coexist more than four or five years no problem. I could ask Comodo too but it's fair to say Comodo is free (I use their free firewall) and EAM is paid - for me it's slightly different. First I ask for help where I paid money (and cannot use that product for two weeks just now), on second place I could beg on the helpdesk of the free product...

And, well, I can see this last update works strangely not only on comps with Comodo installed so maybe the problem is bigger.

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bmunoz: Please email [email protected] That issue is not related to this thread at all, which is specific to a Comodo Firewall conflict. The issue you're having might be a known one that is not related in function or symptoms to this particular one. When you email, please let me know the brand of the machines they're using. If this is what I think it is, it's actually pretty easy to fix for an experienced tech, not so much for others.

endevite/Libor: I wish it was as simple as reviewing changes. That's a great idea in theory, but given how complex the systems are, and I'm not just talking about our program here, but our program and all of the things it could possibly interact with, it's not quite that easy. We do know roughly where to start of course, but that doesn't mean that's where the issue will be found. I'm not giving up on testing/trying.

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Well, either way, whatever is the cause, hoping I don't need to try to help and debug to spot the faulting point (especially since I am having fun problems with a middle ear infection and my right tonsil where I should be sleeping it off for a few weeks, it was bad and had brown foul sludge draining, so lots of antibiotics).

I do hope the delayed channel stays at the build it is until this is resolved because I cannot afford to run only eam on the networks I manage and firewall/hips control is the more important feature at the moment from comodo. I really do hope this gets worked out as windows firewall is insufficient and I went with eam due to it having passed a battery of detection testing when I did my yearly evaluations and how it worked with comodo firewall. (I do wish eam had a real firewall management system both with traditional ip/port rules and application rules, then I wouldn't have to fuss with comodo anymore nor would many users who want both firewall control and a good anti malware suite.)

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'Delayed' is not an automatic promotion of older versions. We only pick those that have exhibited better stability.

For a real firewall management system, you might think about evaluating one of the Windows Firewall front-ends. Windows Firewall is actually pretty good, albeit 'interesting' to manage. A lot more products use it as their back-end than I ever thought, until I looked into it.

And yes, I hope this gets worked out soon too. Now that we've figured out and dealt with the issue specific to HP accelerometer (hard drive freefall protection) software, there might be more resources available.

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Where do we find details of the specified "HP accelerometer (hard drive freefall protection) software"?

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> Where do we find details of the specified "HP accelerometer (hard drive freefall protection) software"?

Presumably it's part of the firmware in some HP laptops?

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Leks: If you have a Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 R2 machine (which uses Windows 7 codebase), and it's an HP, and it's running or has installed HP's drive protection (accelerometer, free fall protection) software, please email [email protected] and let us know. If that particular HP software does not exist on your machine, or it isn't an HP, or it isn't Windows 7 codebase, the problem should not exist. There have so far been no reports of any version of Windows, other than those, having the issue. Two of the affecting HP programs are named "HP 3D Drive Guard" and "HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection". That is not to say that with those installed on a Windows 7 codebase machine the issue WILL happen.

I will not give further details or help about that in this forum topic since it will derail the original topic (that I'm still working on), plus we need to handle these individually in some cases. Depending on how the machine was treated after affected, IF affected, what we need to do for that particular machine might change a bit.

To keep this topic on-task for those having trouble with Emsisoft Anti-Malware and Comodo Firewall, please understand that I'll clean up further posts not related to that issue. I'm still very willing to communicate and have more details - just send in an email.

This is only for housekeeping and staying on-task for this forum topic.

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Only quick question: is anything new with EAM and Comodo Firewall problem? After three weeks of nonfunctional EAM (on W7 with Comodo Firewall) it seems nothing is happening. Is Emsisoft still interested in this or is it necessary to look for a new antivirus program?

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5 hours ago, Libor said:

Only quick question: is anything new with EAM and Comodo Firewall problem? After three weeks of nonfunctional EAM (on W7 with Comodo Firewall) it seems nothing is happening. Is Emsisoft still interested in this or is it necessary to look for a new antivirus program?

 I hope it's still being looked into, I am getting grumpy complaints from clients who are still stuck in delayed release.

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Libor, endevite,

Of course it is! I don't have new information at this time, which is why I haven't posted about it. When I do, I will!

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I have the same problem too, and similar backgroud: Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit + EAM (licensed) + Comodo FW 10.2 (licensed, only firewall no internet suite) + Avira (licensed, only antivirus no internet suite and firewall management disabled).

From last update of EAM, my computer boots but Windows remains into infinite waiting after login, sometimes screen goes black with mouse cursor active and nothing on it, sometimes black screen plus prompt window with cmd.exe waiting and blinking curson inside.

Only reboot into safe mode and restore previous configuration or remove EAM works, and let  me use PC again.

After reading last suggestions, I tried this: installed (again) EAM, opened Comodo control panel, disabled Emsisoft program folder control into "Auto-Containment" and "Viruscope" sections (adding rules with + button) and ONLY NOW reboot the machine.

Results: boot...login  screen...wainting...black screen with mouse cursor.............after waiting 1 or 2 minutes without results, an hard reset (ctrl+ald+del not working), boot, login, ALL WORKS!!!!


I hope this is useful for everyone else

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Yes, I switched over from what I typed earlier, and have been using EAM with delayed release with updates enabled. It is working that way. I still have not tested to see if the software works correctly in normal mode. I am waiting for word that it is fixed.

Could you please explain delayed release a bit better? Is it current signatures, but the older program version? Or are the signatures delayed, too?

The tech security world is going crazy this year. New vulnerabilities, good updates, bad updates, including with MS updates. Good luck, all!

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Door Knob,

This is a simplification, but delayed is the most stable of the last month's releases. While 2018.3.x is current, 2018.2.x's most stable version will be delayed. Again, this is a simplification and it's not guaranteed to follow that scheme at all. Yes, delayed uses current signatures, but may be missing features, even those that protect the computer better in some cases. Yes, it is current signatures in a slightly older program version.

Back to the Comodo Firewall issue: On my test computer, I'm using stable, currently 2018.3.1.8572 on Windows 7 x64. I just put in a few Windows updates. I also updated Comodo Firewall. As of this moment, the problem isn't happening to me with no exclusions set up anywhere, and both programs running with everything enabled that would be by default with the Comodo installation options I chose, mentioned earlier. I have full logging enabled though, even beyond just turning on debug logging in-program. Hopefully I'll catch something. Note though that several changes were made in the latest stable, and one of those may have had an affect.

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It didn't work! At first reboot, after a first black screen, it seemed to work fine. All worked for hours until switch off.
Yesterday, the sequence:
-at first boot, login and after a black screen with mouse pointer on. Again.
-Hard reset, login, black screen+mouse pointer.
-Hard reset, login, windows desktop but mouse pointer locked in waiting circle and click inactive.
-HArd reset, login, black screen.
-Hard reset, login, windows desktop, mouse active, one click on browser icon, infinite waiting circle mouse pointer.
-Hard reset, safe mode, removed EAM. All works fine until now, with two or three reboot.

And now? There was a signature update during machine working; a new bug?

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Sorry for the slow reply, fabrix.

We think we have the information we need to find and hopefully fix this Comodo conflict. I don't have any more information than that, other than it is being worked on right now. When we have something, I'll post it here first.

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Tomorrow it will be one full month from the moment I cannot use EAM on two of my machines. Any news? Because it's not funny anymore!

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Libor,

It wasn't funny to begin with, and still isn't. I haven't had any updates other than it's being worked on currently, I don't have any working workarounds (as I tried to do earlier), and I don't have information on when it will be done. When we have something ready to test, I'll mention it here, and of course when the fix it out in stable I will as well.

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Hi, hope all is well. Just checking to see if there has been any progress with the compatibility issues between Emsisoft and Comodo firewall? For now I am using ZoneAlarm which seems to be a good firewall with the settings on high. I have been using Comodo and Emsisoft for years together. I feel naked security-wise without Comodo firewall. Anything new?

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If this matter isn't resolved soon and/or the compatibility issue with known good software, e.g.  The BetEngine, isn't resolved soon then I won't be recommending Emsisoft to my customers any more.

I can't begin to start to guess how many people I have recommended this anti-malware suite to and most of these are/were using Comodo firewall.  And people are asking me why if there's an issue with third party firewalls then why did Emsisoft stop developing their own?

I suggest either get this working or dig out the source code for your old firewall and re-integrate that.   A lot of us don't trust Microsoft's offerings, especially when we hear of tales of Windows 10 borking when one uses a popular browser.   So, I would rather use an anti-malware suite that didn't force me to use MS' products.

Best wishes
  Malc

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Not even an either/or for me. Would have been back when Online Armor existed, choosing whether to get both products from Emsisoft or pair something with Comodo, and it is of course always better to have the full suite from the same place, just for compatibility, but with that discontinued I'm used with Comodo and won't change it, it's the only option and it lets me monitor and control my system (the Firewall including sandboxing and HIPS as well), something which is necessary constantly, while truth be told, while I really wouldn't want a computer without it either, something that just keeps me safe of actual malware is only actually useful maybe a few times a year (and only actually know EAM to have been useful for that purpose once in the 2.5 years of using it).

Now the delayed branch, which I've been on since the option was introduced, is still on 2018.2.1 and that isn't incompatible, and I'm hoping there will be no update pushed to that branch this month, but if there will ever be incompatibility between EAM and Comodo (and I'm using 8.4, see obvious risks and no real benefits of updating to 10, and also on 32-bit, which hardly seems tested anymore), it's clear which one will go. Add the fact that the constantly useful product is free as well, while the paid one specifically refuses to be useful, arguing against serious application level firewall and HIPS whenever the matter is brought up.

And I'll just repeat for the umpteenth time that instead of this delayed option that still forces an update on me when Emsisoft chooses, I want the option to check for program updates but only install when and IF I choose to, being able to just get definitions updates (or nothing at all, just check) if I so choose.

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MalcolmSm1th: There aren't issues with third party firewalls in general; there's an issue specifically with Comodo Firewall. While I have a little information on what specifically is causing the hang, I don't have enough information to say anything yet. As far as I am aware, Comodo Firewall is the only third party firewall that has an issue running alongside Emsisoft Anti-Malware right now. Please email [email protected] about TheBetEngine though. I'd like to gather details about any conflict with TheBetEngine on your machine so we can get that cleared up. This is the first I've heard of it or any issue with it.

For anyone else stumbling by, this thread is specific to the Comodo Firewall issue, which is serious enough to cause hangs on boot. Any other issues, incompatibilities, false detections etc. please contact support so we can look into them.

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I’m curious to know what other people are using to replace Comodo firewall.  I’m using VoodooShield free and GlassWire free.  I tried TinyWall but it didn’t seem to like my VPN. 

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Like I said, I definitely won't be replacing Comodo with anything. Great firewall, plus HIPS and sandboxing, prompts for everything, monitoring, details too, easy to create rules (or not, when answering prompts), how can you go wrong? And there are very few real options left even for just a decent firewall, sadly. But did find these lists at one point:

- https://www.techradar.com/news/the-best-free-firewall

- https://www.lifewire.com/free-firewall-programs-4129270

But I'm not seeing anything there, at least out of those that are still being developed, that can compare.

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11 hours ago, Manjusri108 said:

I’m curious to know what other people are using to replace Comodo firewall.  I’m using VoodooShield free and GlassWire free.  I tried TinyWall but it didn’t seem to like my VPN. 

I know a lot of people still like ZoneAlarm (just make sure to get only the firewall, as they also have an Anti-Virus). There really aren't a lot of stand-alone firewall products out there these days. Microsoft has put most of them out of business with the advances they've made to the Windows Firewall, and of course AV software companies all have their own "Internet Security" products that make it more economical for people to buy those and get Anti-Virus + firewall for a lower price than getting them separately, so it's really hard for a company selling just a firewall to stay in business.

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Any updates yet? I am getting pushed by my clients, if there isn't resolve I may have to look elsewhere, it has been too long in their eyes.

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Well, I too won't replace Comodo. Use it for a lot of years and it helps me to find which application want internet connection (among other things). I uninstalled EAM 6 weeks ago ('cos I have to work sometimes) and on home comp I temporary have Microsoft SE, in work I use no antivirus program just now (in fact, Comodo firewall and a small amount of caution is enough sometimes :-)  )

But I want to stress that I'm really fed with this situation. I've been really patient but enough is enough. I wait until the end of this month and then I'll choose another antivirus program for my computers. Almost two months of my 12 months license went without being able to use EAM on two my computers. Really lightspeed customer support in case of troubles. Jeez...

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3 minutes ago, Libor said:

Well, I too won't replace Comodo. Use it for a lot of years and it helps me to find which application want internet connection (among other things). I uninstalled EAM 6 weeks ago ('cos I have to work sometimes) and on home comp I temporary have Microsoft SE, in work I use no antivirus program just now (in fact, Comodo firewall and a small amount of caution is enough sometimes :-)  )

But I want to stress that I'm really fed with this situation. I've been really patient but enough is enough. I wait until the end of this month and then I'll choose another antivirus program for my computers. Almost two months of my 12 months license went without being able to use EAM on two my computers. Really lightspeed customer support in case of troubles. Jeez...

For me, I switched multiple networks owned by different businesses to eam and they got to run it for months before it became a problem, they are none to happy about it.

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1 hour ago, GT500 said:

It's really hard for a company selling just a firewall to stay in business.

That's if they're selling it. May notice that most separate firewalls that still exist are free, including Comodo.

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23 hours ago, Cavalary said:

That's if they're selling it. May notice that most separate firewalls that still exist are free, including Comodo.

That's because COMODO makes enough money from installing toolbars and such with their "free" firewall to justify the development costs. ;)

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I was thinking they're earning from certificates, plus the (optionally) paid CIS. As for that, as long as you can uncheck everything in installer, so it won't affect anyone who actually looks, no complaints from me.

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They do make money from other sources as well, however a software has to make enough money to cover its own development costs, otherwise there is no point in continued development. If they were not making enough money to cover the costs of development for CIS, then it would make more sense to discontinue CIS and invest the money into something that could pay for its own development. Developing a software that doesn't even cover its own costs means you can't put as many resources into expanding your business and product line, you can't hire as many employees, and you can't pay existing employees as much as you could if all of your development projects were profitable. ;)

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On the business aspect, you can have a product that generates losses if you think it brings awareness and may draw clients to other products that do pay, consider its costs as advertising costs for your brand. And otherwise, some don't do what they do for the profits, or see it as a business at all. If all did, you wouldn't have open source software, wikis or other collaborative projects, or volunteering of any sort if going away from IT...

Speaking in general, I mean, since you moved this to a general discussion.

(Will I be told it's off topic again?)

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1 hour ago, Cavalary said:

(Will I be told it's off topic again?)

Technically it is off topic, and we should probably drop the discussion for now (at least in this topic). ;)

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Please, stop off topic! The problem remains, lets them work!

 

To be clear, my Comodo firewall isn't free but licensed, so as Emsisoft anti malware. So it can't be due to the fact that it is free.

Comodo works great and i don't want to migrate to other solutions; and EAM was workin well, too, but not now.

So I hope them can solve quickly, and extend the license expiration as I have not been able to use it from several weeks.

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5 hours ago, fabrix said:

So I hope them can solve quickly, and extend the license expiration as I have not been able to use it from several weeks.

You should be able to still use EAM paired with CFW if you switch to the delayed branch, right?

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2 minutes ago, Cavalary said:

You should be able to still use EAM paired with CFW if you switch to the delayed branch, right?

Yes, exactly so. Delayed should not be changed until after the Comodo issue is taken care of.

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48 minutes ago, Cavalary said:

You should be able to still use EAM paired with CFW if you switch to the delayed branch, right?

44 minutes ago, David Biggar said:

Yes, exactly so. Delayed should not be changed until after the Comodo issue is taken care of.

Sorry, I missed something?

I was forced to remove EAM thas was locking my PC, tried several times to re-install it and then uninstall. How can I "switch" to the "delayed brach", and what is it (delayed brach)?

Emsisoft's site hasn't a download section, and the only download button let me get the last version, I  suppose.

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@fabrix - when you have EAM installed, go to Settings - Updates ... and at the bottom of that screen there's a drop-down menu which offers you three possible sets of 'feeds'.   There's a choice of "Beta" which is only suitable for people who are willing to experiment with new EAM features, which is risky if you're not fairly expert.  Then there's "Stable" which is what most people use.  And lastly there's "Delayed" which means that you'll be running an older version of EAM.

Whichever option you pick takes effect every time EAM does an update - the updater doesn't just collect new signatures etc, it also if needed installs a specific version of EAM itself.   If eg you change from 'Stable' to 'Delayed', the updater will replace your 'Stable' version of EAM with the 'Delayed' version.  Anyone who makes such a change then has to keep the 'feed' setting at whatever they chose (for as long as they want to run the specified version) because if they immediately change back to 'Stable' (or anything else) then the very next update will replace the just-installed version by whatever they've now got selected. 

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Well, THIS IS the information which should have been here immediately after the first problems occured. Thanks, JeremyNicoll!!

I just installed EAM, switch it to "delayed" feed and updated it manually to that "delayed" program version. And yes, after Windows reboot now EAM is working with Comodo again. I know of course there were some mentions about it in this thread, but in fact I didn't know what it's all about and if this is not workaround only for some computers (btw in Czech menu it's translated a litle awkward so it tells you nothing much helping...).

I just don't understand why this isn't written in bold as the first answer in this thread? Or - for that reason - on Emsisoft download web page could be some notice to unlucky Comodo firewall users about this workaround.

Thanks again, Jeremy.

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@JeremyNicoll - Many thanks, I saw it during my investigations but I misunderstood its meaning. I had thought: why delay it?

@Libor - I agree with you. It had to be written at the begin of the thread, after the first post as "temporary solution". And with bold and capital letters as "work in progress" on download page.

 

Well, I'll try it and I'll let you know. Thanks @JN

 

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2 hours ago, fabrix said:

It had to be written at the begin of the thread ...

I've added it to the pinned post at the beginning of the thread.

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