spikey

Outlook pst file fails to backup

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I have GoodSync (by Siber Systems) that sync files/folders to a backup drive. I have Windows 10 Pro build 1909 and Office 365. Since installing EAM the Outlook.pst file stopped syncing and gives a copy error. I can't manually copy the pst file to the backup drive either (using the copy and paste method OR the drag and drop method). If I close Outlook then the pst file can be copied with no problem. If I restart Outlook the pst file will not copy. If I uninstall Emsisoft Malware then the pst file will copy and sync with GoodSync and by doing a manual copy. If I reinstall EAM then the pst file fails to copy or sync. It's clear Emsisoft is the culprit. I just started using Emsisoft a couple weeks ago and that's when this problem started. Any help?

Thanks
Spike

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Would you mind sending us debug logs? Here's how to get them:

  1. Open Emsisoft Anti-Malware.
  2. Click on the little gear icon on the left side of the Emsisoft Anti-Malware window (roughly in the middle).
  3. Click Advanced in the menu at the top.
  4. Scroll to the bottom of the Advanced section, and change the option for Debug logging to Enabled for 1 day.
  5. After that, close the Emsisoft Anti-Malware window.
  6. Reproduce the issue you are having (try copying/syncing your PST file).
  7. Once you have reproduced the issue, open Emsisoft Anti-Malware again.
  8. Click on the little icon in the lower-left (right above the question mark) that looks like little chat bubbles.
  9. Click on the button that says Send an email.
  10. Select the logs on the right that show today's dates (if you try to send too many logs, then we may not receive them).
  11. Fill in the e-mail contact form with your name, your e-mail address, and a description of what the logs are for (if possible please leave a link to the topic on the forums that the logs are related to in your message).
  12. If you have any screenshots or another file that you need to send with the logs, then you can click the Attach file button at the bottom (only one file can be attached at a time).
  13. Click on Send now at the bottom once you are ready to send the logs.

Important: Please be sure to turn debug logging back off after sending us the logs. There are some negative effects to having debug logging turned on, such as reduced performance and wasting hard drive space, and it is not recommended to leave debug logging turned on for a long period of time unless it is necessary to collect debug logs.

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We've received your logs. Our current thinking is maybe it would help to add an exclusion for the PST file, however this will keep the scanner from detecting malicious attachments in the PST file when you run a Custom Scan and enable the option to scan inside archives. Note that this will not prevent the real-time protection from detecting threats in opened attachments, especially if the mail client implements either IOfficeAntiVirus or AMSI (since these are Microsoft technologies most of their stuff implements one of these).

If you use our cloud console (accessible through my.emsisoft.com) then I recommend adding the exclusions from there. Otherwise I recommend adding them via the settings in Emsisoft Anti-Mawlare. You will only need to exclude this file from scanning.

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41 minutes ago, spikey said:

I've tried that already. It doesn't work. But I'll try it again. I had even set the entire folder excluded.

Thank you

If your last set of debug logs were made when the exclusion wasn't defined, Emsisoft might benefit from more logs with it defined.

I know nothing about Outlook, but maybe it needs to be stopped and restarted for EAM to treat its files differently.

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Out of curiosity, did disabling protection in Emsisoft Anti-Malware have any effect on the issue?

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I sent debug logs to supoort yesterday. Nothing made a difference. In reference to the post from JeremyNicoll, Outlook is an email program and to start and stop Outlook to have the pst file copied is not helpful. Outlook is set to check emails every hour and will alert me when new ones arrive. To stop the program so EAM doesn't prevent the pst file to be copied defeats the purpose of what I use Outlook for. It also has contacts, calendar entries, tasks, etc that sync between devices and if it's not running it won't sync. Never had a problem with copying the pst file until I installed EAM. Hope that helps explaining why I use Outlook and what is currently happening.

Spikey

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@spikey   Thank-you, but it's not the copying of the (open) PST file I wondered about per se, so much as whether a one-off close and reopen of that file might affect the way EAM's exclusions work.  Ie, whether an exclusion not previously in effect can take effect when the file is already open.

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I'm still not sure what you're asking but so long as Outlook is open, the pst won't copy. If I close Outlook, the pst file will copy. To open Outlook only when I check emails is not what Outlook is for. The program remains running so emails are checked on a preset schedule and task, contacts, etc can be sync'd. Right now I'm using another program (Acronis) to sync my pst file to a backup drive and I'll continue doing that until a fix is found for Emsisoft. I don't want to discontinue EAM over this pst file issue, but it bugs me that it's happening. I hope they can find a fix for this bug.

Spikey

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@spikey what @JeremyNicoll is getting at as long as outlook.pst is open by another application, i.e. Outlook and Acronis.  Exclusions in Emsisoft may not take effect until outlook.pst is no longer open by another application or the next reboot.  Also keep in mind that you must clear all previous detection's against outlook,pst as they take precedence over any whitelist rule for outlook.pst.

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Shouldn't a PC reboot take care of releasing any program that is open by another program? Acronis only backs up the file in question, it doesn't keep it "open". Closing Outlook would, of course, release the pst file. 

Spikey

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3 hours ago, spikey said:

Shouldn't a PC reboot take care of releasing any program that is open by another program?

In this case, yes.

That being said, it's important to note that on Windows 8 and Windows 10 there is an odd behavior where during shutdown Windows saves an image of running services and drivers, and on the next startup it loads this image back into memory, so the service and drivers will still be in a running state and it will seem (from their perspective) that the computer was never shut down. This means that exclusions for a program that is running as a service may not take effect until the computer is restarted in such a way that bypasses this behavior (which is called "Fast Startup"). Of course, this has no bearing on your Outlook issue, unless this is due to a conflict with other software on the computer.

 

3 hours ago, spikey said:

Acronis only backs up the file in question, it doesn't keep it "open".

If you mean Acronis True Image, it has real-time protection that is not compatible with Emsisoft Anti-Malware. Running both at the same time could be what's causing your issue.

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That is true when you "shut down" the computer, but it's not true when you reboot or restart the computer. Restarting "releases" ALL files and clears memory, etc., of all processess and does not create an image. And as for EAM and Acronis running the same time, it seems odd that only 1 file, the pst file, is being affected and no other file. I would be curious if any other EAM user with Acronis installed and EAM and Outlook running is having the same issue. I can tell you that both my computer and laptop have this issue so it's not just 1 machine. Although my laptop isn't running all the time and therefore, sync'ing the files only happens when it's running and the only file not sync'ing is the pst file. So I guess Acronis and EAM aren't compatible?
Thank you.

Spikey

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A followup to the incompatibility concern... I deactivated Active Protection and disabled all Acronis components from starting. I then rebooted and Acronis was not running and task manager showed no components running. Tried to copy and same issue with not being able to copy the pst file. Sorry about all this but it would be nice if it could be fixed so I could use GoodSync again to sync my file instead of having Acronis do it (it creates a .tib file that I have to extract the pst from). So much easier when the pst file is copied "as is" with GoodSync. Anyway, thanks for all your help and I'll await any response.

Thank you

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16 hours ago, spikey said:

I would be curious if any other EAM user with Acronis installed and EAM and Outlook running is having the same issue.

Most users with Acronis True Image and EAM installed who have reported issues have system freezing/hanging issues or performance issues, however strange file access issue could occur as well (the symptoms of a conflict are not necessarily similar from one computer to another).

 

16 hours ago, spikey said:

So I guess Acronis and EAM aren't compatible?

I have Acronis True Image 2018 installed, but I keep a lot of its services disabled (and possibly a few of its drivers) so that it can't run its real-time protection. Since it's the real-time protection that's the issue, making sure that its processing aren't running resolves any potential issues. Exclusions for Acronis program folders helps as well.

 

9 hours ago, spikey said:

I deactivated Active Protection and disabled all Acronis components from starting.

By "components" I assume you mean services (via services.msc)?

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OK. I've forwarded your logs to QA. Please note that it could take some time for them to review your logs with our development team.

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Apparently you have some Norton security software installed as well. Would it be possible to remove that, and see if that effects the issue in any way?

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I would consider it but I'll have to do it when I have more time. That's going to be more involved. Not sure when I can test that out. Sorry...

 

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Hope this doesn't get too wordy, but I have an older laptop that I'm cloning an HDD drive to an SDD to use in the laptop. This older laptop I've restored to the factory default so there's no other programs on it except the pre-installed stuff that the laptop maker includes. My plan is to:

1. Do all Microsoft updates to bring the default to current security and software updates and that would include the v. 1909 Win 10 Pro build.
2. Install Office365 and import the pst file to this laptop (doing this first since it's the pst file that's at issue) then trying a drag/drop or copy/paste to a backup folder (on same C disk)
3. After successfully doing 2, I'll install EAM (I have a 3rd license unused so no problem there) then I'll enable the logging for the continuation of this process. I'll try to copy pst file to backup folder.
4. If unsuccessful I'll stop the log and send it to you with what I did. If successful in the copying of pst I'll install Norton 365 and try to copy the pst file to the backup folder (the logs still would be running).
5. If Norton is not preventing the copying process then I'll install Acronis True Image and try the copying process.
6. If the backup copy process fails at any point, I'll stop the logs and send them to you with an explanation.

Is there a different process you'd like before I do this? I can't use the GoodSync program because I only have 1 license and I don't think GoodSync is the problem but Acronis OR perhaps Norton, as you've stated?

Thanks

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I sent the logs and here's what I've found out. Newly restored laptop with no programs except preinstalled ones.
1. I updated to Windows version 1909 then installed Office 365, imported the pst file and copied to backup folder.
2. Installed EAM and started log files. Copied pst file to backup folder.
3. Installed Norton Security and tried to copy pst file but failed.
4. Uninstalled Norton and tried to copy and failed. Stopped the logs and sent them to support. I didn't even try to install Acronis since I can't copy the pst file at all now.
5. Uninstalled EAM and could copy the pst file to a backup.

 

Norton changed something that EAM is not compatible with - EVEN after UNINSTALLING Norton it did not resolve the copy issue.



 

 

 

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6 hours ago, spikey said:

Norton changed something that EAM is not compatible with ...

It's probably one of their drivers or services. It's possible that not everything was removed after the uninstall, and that's why the issue persisted afterwards.

Regardless, compatibility issues with other security software is entirely possible. When more that one application is opening hooks to every other running process on the computer (which requires injecting code into every running process as well), it can cause all sorts of weird problems, and thus we don't generally recommend running more than one security software with real-time protection on the same computer.

I've passed this information on to QA in case they want to look into this further.

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