Yilee

EAM Custom Scheduled Scans Show as Quick Scans

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Recently since delayed version update to 2019.11.1.9884 I noticed that when i went to run a scheduled custom scan of my external drive only that the scan was much too fast. Upon looking at the settings under "WHAT" TO SCAN THEN "CONFIGURE"  that the scan was set up as a Quick Scan and not Custom which explained why the scan went so fast. Edit: I really don't know when this problem started because it was just coincidental that I went to run one of my existing custom scheduled scans just one day after the above update.

Furthermore, after I reset all the custom "what to scan" settings I discovered that I could run the Custom Scan before exiting the settings but once I clicked OK to exit and went back into the settings it continues to revert back to "Quick Scan". So I have "3 different  Custom Scans" set up on 3 different Win7 computers and they are all behaving the same way. Also, this problem remains even if I am logged into an ADMIN USER ACCOUNT. It's not a big deal as I can always run a MANUAL CUSTOM SCAN USING SAVED SETTINGS, but I would eventually prefer that the scheduled settings would remain in place and run correctly.

I prefer not to provide a troubleshooting log as I do not like to share such data or any data for that matter. I am hoping that someone else might check to see if this is happening on other users computers or if it can be duplicated.

All of my Windows 7 Pro and 2 Ultimate computers are updated through Dec2019 and have the Sept 2019 Service Stack Patch which is the minimum SSU required to get any lingering updates or to update Office 2010. I have been using EAM for several years without any problems for at least 2 years or more now.

Any help about the above matter would be appreciated.

Extra question: How much longer will EAM be supported on Windows 7 ???

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8 hours ago, Yilee said:

Extra question: How much longer will EAM be supported on Windows 7 ???

We have not yet set an end of support date for Windows 7. We're not yet certain how long our customers will continue it, or how log it will be possible to keep Windows 7 computers safe, especially with Microsoft offering extended update support for up to 3 years for businesses who pay for it.

 

8 hours ago, Yilee said:

All of my Windows 7 Pro and 2 Ultimate computers are updated through Dec2019 and have the Sept 2019 Service Stack Patch which is the minimum SSU required to get any lingering updates or to update Office 2010. I have been using EAM for several years without any problems for at least 2 years or more now.

We recommend installing January updates as well. There may be another service stack update in addition to the security updates released in January. These will be the last updates you will get, unless this is a business computer and it has a subscription to Microsoft's Extended Security Updates for Windows 7.

 

8 hours ago, Yilee said:

once I clicked OK to exit and went back into the settings it continues to revert back to "Quick Scan".

Does this happen with the latest stable build (2020.2) of Emsisoft Anti-Malware?

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10 hours ago, GT500 said:

We have not yet set an end of support date for Windows 7. We're not yet certain how long our customers will continue it, or how log it will be possible to keep Windows 7 computers safe, especially with Microsoft offering extended update support for up to 3 years for businesses who pay for it.

 

We recommend installing January updates as well. There may be another service stack update in addition to the security updates released in January. These will be the last updates you will get, unless this is a business computer and it has a subscription to Microsoft's Extended Security Updates for Windows 7.

 

Does this happen with the latest stable build (2020.2) of Emsisoft Anti-Malware?

I will change the update settings from stable to current version and will see if I can schedule a custom scan that keeps its settings and get back to you.

As far as patching goes I am looking into 0Patch_com to obtain critical security patches. All of the reviews at askwoody_com have reported that they are reputable and offer lightweight patch protection only for the most serious security holes that occasionally do arise.

Thanks

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@Yilee I have been informed that the official end of support date for Windows 7 has been set for March 31st, 2021:
https://help.emsisoft.com/en/2881/supported-operating-systems-and-platforms/

 

On 2/8/2020 at 11:46 AM, Yilee said:

As far as patching goes I am looking into 0Patch_com to obtain critical security patches. All of the reviews at askwoody_com have reported that they are reputable and offer lightweight patch protection only for the most serious security holes that occasionally do arise.

They have an interesting concept, however I don't know how effective it is in application. I'm also not certain how it will effect software compatibility in the long term. In the short term it may be fine though, and if they are good about resolving issues caused by their patches then in theory that shouldn't be a real issue.

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On 2/10/2020 at 10:55 PM, GT500 said:

@Yilee I have been informed that the official end of support date for Windows 7 has been set for March 31st, 2021:
https://help.emsisoft.com/en/2881/supported-operating-systems-and-platforms/

 

They have an interesting concept, however I don't know how effective it is in application. I'm also not certain how it will effect software compatibility in the long term. In the short term it may be fine though, and if they are good about resolving issues caused by their patches then in theory that shouldn't be a real issue.

Thank you for the Win7 EOL info. I'm just a little surprised that Win 8.1 is also ending March 31, 2021, but the OS doesn't have much market share. I do have an unused Win 8.1 Pro license. I will prepare accordingly but I am quite certain that I will not build  a Win10 system, perhaps Linux Mint or other Linux Enterprise version(will cost money) along side my Win7 set-up. Google and Apple are both in the process of  degrading their Full unlimited Extensions to abbreviated Extensions that use much less lines of Code with less kernel or API access. Over my head to explain. The bottom line is that Ad-Blocker Extensions such as Ublock Origin will no longer be developed for Chome and IOS13 users of Iphone and Ipad Pro. So far, only the desktop version of Firefox Quantum along with Pale Moon and other Firefox Forks will be able to use the full Blown extension types going forward(or very soon). I will do what I can to pursue using full blown ad-blockers with Sandboxie 5.26 to 5.30 on whatever OS that will continue to support Firefox Quantum and Pale Moon (alternate them) desktop browser versions in  the future. Hopefully, Mozilla will not follow Google and Apple. Those of us that care about such matters will soon be facing hard decisions. I also use AV,IDP and Cyren Content Protection at a Zywall USG Firewall-Gateway with many Firewall Rules. Soon to add Open-VPN.  0Patch uses lightweight patch that only fixes the security bug and is done in memory at start-up. The process does not change any Windows system files, and this is how they purport to not cause potential issues with other 3rd party programs. Moving on. 

1. What other Operating Systems does EAM support?

2. Concerning my original problem, I have some additional information.

     ***I never did try the current EAM release. However, I did play around with the setting's and narrowed down the issue and this is what I found.

a. I found that ever though the scheduled custom scans when opened, and then clicking the  "what" tab shows "quick scan" when it should show "custom".

b. However, if I just click cancel without making any changes inside the "what-configure" screen, the Main scheduled screen will  still show as "custom" and the scans still run as expected.

c. But if the "what/configure" settings tab is accessed, then all of the original custom settings will be LOST and will have to be re-entered and saved and not bothered again once "OK" is checked to exit the settings dialog boxes.

d. So in the end it is not a big problem as long as you understand not to bother the "what-configure" settings. Even though the "What" tab shows Quick Scan" the  custom scheduled scans will still work as expected.

e. In the end, all of the above may be expected behavior, as I can't remember for sure.

So, let me know if the above is expected behavior or is a minor bug.

Thanks

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@Yilee wrote: I'm just a little surprised that Win 8.1 is also ending March 31, 2021 ...

Oh, that's terrible news.  Microsoft have it on 'extended' (ie limited) support  until 10 Jan 2023.

I wasn't expecting my machine to become "useless" well before MS stop supporting the OS.   Thanks a lot.    WHY am I reading about that here rather than in a more public announcement?   And why such short notice?

 

@GT500- Now I have to find another antimalware product to use.  Any recommendations?

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9 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

@Yilee wrote: I'm just a little surprised that Win 8.1 is also ending March 31, 2021 ...

Oh, that's terrible news.  Microsoft have it on 'extended' (ie limited) support  until 10 Jan 2023.

I wasn't expecting my machine to become "useless" well before MS stop supporting the OS.   Thanks a lot.    WHY am I reading about that here rather than in a more public announcement?   And why such short notice?

 

@GT500- Now I have to find another antimalware product to use.  Any recommendations?

We'll be reevaluating EOL dates in January 2021, so nothing is set in stone yet.

That being said, we don't have many Windows 8.1 users among our customers, which is why we're considering discontinuing support before the official Microsoft EOL date.

 

10 hours ago, Yilee said:

Google and Apple are both in the process of  degrading their Full unlimited Extensions to abbreviated Extensions that use much less lines of Code with less kernel or API access. Over my head to explain. The bottom line is that Ad-Blocker Extensions such as Ublock Origin will no longer be developed for Chome and IOS13 users of Iphone and Ipad Pro.

It has to do with a new limitation to an API necessary for ad blockers to work. Google likes to blame performance issues in Chrome on everything but their own code, so since they can't blame Anti-Virus software anymore they're now blaming extensions that use this API to facilitate content filtering/ad blocking/etc. for Chrome's generally poor performance. Anyway, they're requiring content filtering apps to use a new API that is faster but which only supports a relatively small number of filtering rules, and thus is inadequate for a proper ad blocker.

It's important to note that Vivaldi and some other third-party Chromium based browsers may keep the old API intact so that ad blockers such as uBlock Origin continue to work. Granted if these ad blockers discontinue development for Chromium based browser altogether then this will eventually become irrelevant, as you'd be stuck using only outdated versions.

 

10 hours ago, Yilee said:

1. What other Operating Systems does EAM support?

All supported Operating Systems are listed in the article linked above.

Basically at this time just Windows 7, 8.1, and 10. Emsisoft Enterprise Security also supports 64-bit versions of Windows Server 2008 R2, 2012, 2012 R2, 2016, and 2019.

 

10 hours ago, Yilee said:

So, let me know if the above is expected behavior or is a minor bug.

I don't think it's expected behavior, however I've asked QA for confirmation.

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@GT500  said > We'll be reevaluating EOL dates in January 2021, so nothing is set in stone yet.  That being said, we don't have many Windows 8.1 users among our customers, which is why we're considering discontinuing support before the official Microsoft EOL date.

The problem is, no-one can be sure that if they wait until Jan 2021 and hope, that that hope will be rewarded.

The change date on  https://help.emsisoft.com/en/2881/supported-operating-systems-and-platforms/  is mid-Jan, almost a month ago.   Why did no-one think to tell the users?   And why do your sales pages still say W7, W8, W8.1 are supported when anyone who buys EAM today but uses one of those OSes is going to be unsupported within the period of the just-bought one year licence?   At the very least you should be saying up-front that support is /likely/ to end inside the next year.

 

People might think my question about other anti-makware software (that IS planning to stick around longer) is irrelevant.  Why would I not just upgrade to W10?

I read elsewhere of innumerable problems people have with Win 10, mainly when the major updates come along.  They seem in a lot of cases to undo settings that people have made to their systems.  I suppose that's inevitable in a way if (from MS's point of view) these updates ship new improved portions of the OS, rather than just fixes.  But that doesn't make users' lives easier.  Nor does MS's increasing tendency to force all updates onto people; right now with W8.1, I note notifications of available updates, then apply them a week or so later /if/ it looks like they are unlikely to screw my system up.   You've only to look at eg:  https://www.askwoody.com/  to see plenty of good reasons not to install updates immediately... and that's IF your version of W10 gives you the choice.

So I am not willing to 'upgrade' my working W8.1 system to a W10 one.  I /am/ willing to buy a new system and put W10 onto it, and have been trying to decide what to get.  But I was assuming that I'd have a safe working W8.1 box to run alongside it, until Jan 2023.   If I do manage to get a W10 system that seems to be stable etc before that, I might update the W8.1 machine too, but then I'd want to keep one or other of them at slightly different service levels, and that might be increasingly hard to do too.  

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@JeremyNicoll you can upgrade to Win 10 to from 8.1 for free (this gives you a digital key which will be recognised by their servers)

Then once upgraded, just download the Windows Media Creation tool to make an iso and do a clean install of Windows 10.... you get what is more or less a brand new machine that way. If you don't want to use a Microsoft Account just stay offline during the clean install and click that you don't have internet or a key. That way it installs as an admin local account and gets auto activated when you go online after the install to check for updates.

I help out in a computer repair shop and we do quite a few of these a week. As for the trouble with updates, I don't have any on my machines, probably because I do clean installs (no old stuff cluttering things up hiding in odd places)

Don't worry too much about firms not supporting things after a certain date... it happens all the time.. it's life.

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@stapp- Thank you.   I'm puzzled by "Then once upgraded, just download the Windows Media Creation tool to make an iso and do a clean install of Windows 10"  -- do you mean that in essence one upgrades twice to W10?  The first time gets you a mix of W10 and whatever's left from one's W8.1 system, then the clean install reverts that to a base W10?

In the first part of that - the upgrade - would I expect all my existing software theoretically to survive the process?    In the second, does one then lose them?

If it all goes wrong, how does one get back to the original W8.1 system?   Does that rely on me already having a system image?

 

I'm not upset by MS support ending at a specific date - I've known about that for years.  But I'm taken aback by Emsi's decision to withdraw W8 and W8.1 support at the same time as W7's.  The product lifecycles for W8/W8.1 were much later on.

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Jeremy just save your documents, pictures, installers etc to an external drive and keep it somewhere safe until your new clean install of Win 10 is done.

Then you can just put them on your new install.

Of course you can just do the quick route. Save things to another drive (unplug it afterwards) then just do a clean fresh  install of Win 10 from iso (either via dvd or usb) without doing the upgrade first. It will auto register the key once you go online. I always during the install choose the 'custom install' so I can delete all partitions from the drive in order that Windows can partition the new install in the way it knows is best.

A system image is the best thing to have in ANY situation :thumbs:

 

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16 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

And why do your sales pages still say W7, W8, W8.1 are supported when anyone who buys EAM today but uses one of those OSes is going to be unsupported within the period of the just-bought one year licence?

Windows 8 isn't supported, and I don't see it listed on any of our product pages. We discontinued support for it quietly 2 or 3 years ago after we noticed that Microsoft had already done so, and eventually placed a block in the installer so that it wouldn't install on this version of Windows. If anyone asks us about it, we recommend they upgrade to 8.1 ASAP as it's been years since Windows 8 has received security updates.

As for why Windows 7 and 8.1 are still listed, it's because we do still support them.

As I said, the date to discontinue support is not set in stone, and we don't want to tell Windows 7 users that our software isn't intended for them if we aren't yet entirely certain when we're discontinuing support. Some corporate clients may have purchased extended support from Microsoft, which can last up to 3 years after Microsoft's official EOL date.

 

16 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

I read elsewhere of innumerable problems people have with Win 10, mainly when the major updates come along.  They seem in a lot of cases to undo settings that people have made to their systems.  I suppose that's inevitable in a way if (from MS's point of view) these updates ship new improved portions of the OS, rather than just fixes.  But that doesn't make users' lives easier.  Nor does MS's increasing tendency to force all updates onto people; right now with W8.1, I note notifications of available updates, then apply them a week or so later /if/ it looks like they are unlikely to screw my system up.   You've only to look at eg:  https://www.askwoody.com/  to see plenty of good reasons not to install updates immediately... and that's IF your version of W10 gives you the choice.

It's actually dangerous to run Windows without the latest updates installed, and I don't recommend waiting to install them.

The way I handle it is to make an image of the system, then install updates, and if they mess anything up I have the image to restore the system from. The imaging software I use allows for creating a bootable disk or USB flash drive that can be used to restore the image if necessary.

Also note that the semi-annual "feature updates" (the big ones that have a tendency to cause the most problems) don't need to be installed right away. Microsoft generally gives people up to a year and a half before they become mandatory, and the last one (1909) was actually a bug fix update and didn't include new features.

 

16 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

So I am not willing to 'upgrade' my working W8.1 system to a W10 one.  I /am/ willing to buy a new system and put W10 onto it, and have been trying to decide what to get.  But I was assuming that I'd have a safe working W8.1 box to run alongside it, until Jan 2023.   If I do manage to get a W10 system that seems to be stable etc before that, I might update the W8.1 machine too, but then I'd want to keep one or other of them at slightly different service levels, and that might be increasingly hard to do too.

The only important recommendation I have right now is get something with an AMD processor, as Intel is having too many security issues.

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@GT500  said > Windows 8 isn't supported, and I don't see it listed on any of our product pages.

Oops.  Sorry, yes you're right.

 

> It's actually dangerous to run Windows without the latest updates installed, and I don't recommend waiting to install them

Waiting a few days is a trade-off between being fairly prompt to install them and trying to avoid the ones that are 'bad', of which there are lots.   In my experience waiting until the weekend after a Patch Tuesday is usually long enough for MS to have withdrawn the bad updates, or refined the code that decides whether or not to install them, or at the very least, updated their info pages to tell people what problems they shoudl expect and - sometimes - how to work around them.

My attitudes are shaped by my previous professional life, researching and applying fixes on S/390 systems.   With Wndows, back in the XP days I read all the info about each KB that MS released before deciding whether to install it.   Nowadays there's a lot less info available from MS unfortunately, but I still read what they do produce.

 

>  The only important recommendation I have right now is get something with an AMD processor, as Intel is having too many security issues.    

Noted.

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11 hours ago, GT500 said:

The only important recommendation I have right now is get something with an AMD processor, as Intel is having too many security issues.

1. I tend to agree about the AMD cpu's but I'm not up to date. It does seem that Intel has more issues.

2.In my case, I do not use any remote desktop connections and the bulk of my security is in our closet using a zywall usg security gateway with AV, IDP AND CONTENT PROTECTION AT THE FIREWALL. Also I have many creative FW rules to only allow protocols that I am aware of and nothing else. I use country GEO blocks, Trusted and unstrusted host sites with wildcards etc...It's very customized. The only thing I keep wondering about is if Cyren-Commtouch can be trusted for content protection indefinitely into the future. None the less, I would feel naked if I didn't use EAM, Outdated Sandboxie(works well on win7) and Ublock Origin to make browsing pleasant.

3. Canadian Tech (I believe) at askwoody website has many customers on Win7 that have been fine without Win7 updates for over 1 to 2 years. I personally wait up to several months until there comes a month where all of the previous patch bugs finally have been fixed (it does happen). Edit: I also to this day have remained in Group B (using Security Only Patches) and I did not download any patches with Win7 Telemetry(I am stubborn). I still intend to use 0Patch in the near future once they show that they are reliable and can promptly fix conflicts as they arise. Stop Edit.

4. In the end, I believe the biggest exposure is to those who want to use any and every service,game etc especially when remote connections are involved. I also believe that if a user does not involve themselves in remote services, cloud services ect and uses good practices along with some of the security techniques I described, they would probably be able to use a unpatched Win 7 machine for several years as long as a 3rd party Browser was up to date.

5. 0Patch did have a recent Hooking conflict with Firefox 72 and 73 but it is to be fixed quickly per both parties. So, 0Patch can sometimes conflict with certain 3rd party programs like AV and Browsers.

6. I'm surprised that no one else came forward as having the same problem with the way my EAM scheduled custom scans were behaving. Please let me know if QA finds anything. Otherwise, I will just wait for the next delayed release.

7. Lastly, why can't Emsisoft (for a fee) just release a version for Win7 that keeps the EAM components in a static state and just provide definition updates and tweaks???

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10 hours ago, Yilee said:

1. I tend to agree about the AMD cpu's but I'm not up to date. It does seem that Intel has more issues.

Intel started a bug bounty program (I would believe late last year), so now we hear about new patches for Intel security issues almost every month. Most of these are in their software, and it's good to see them getting patched.

The real issue is with Intel's processors. They have suffered from numerous security vulnerabilities, necessitating Microsoft and Linux distributions (and I would believe Apple as well) to start distributing CPU microcode updates to provide patches for these critical vulnerabilities, and has even forced everyone (Microsoft/Linux/Apple/etc) to implement patches for their Operating Systems since these issues could not be completely fixed in the microcode updates. At least a couple of the patches for these issues have causes performance issues, especially for certain lines of Intel processors.

AMD on the other hand has suffered from far fewer security issues with their CPUs, with Spectre v1 and v4 being the only two I can remember effecting their processors (although it looks like v2 and v1.1 also effected AMD CPU's). Their processors were also not hit as hard by the Spectre v1 and v2 patches, and thus their performance did not suffer as badly.

Granted both Intel and AMD processors have better hardware mitigations for these older vulnerabilities built in to their CPU's today, but considering that two CPU vulnerabilities in Intel processors have been reported in 2020 it's probably best to avoid Intel at least until they can get their issues with speculative execution under control (or until they just decide to remove it from their CPU's entirely).

 

11 hours ago, Yilee said:

4. In the end, I believe the biggest exposure is to those who want to use any and every service,game etc especially when remote connections are involved. I also believe that if a user does not involve themselves in remote services, cloud services ect and uses good practices along with some of the security techniques I described, they would probably be able to use a unpatched Win 7 machine for several years as long as a 3rd party Browser was up to date.

The biggest threat for any platform tends to be social engineering. Games, so long as they are from legitimate developers/publishers, are usually fine.

As for the using any Operating System without patches, nothing will protect you when a big enough security vulnerability comes along. Well, nothing short of unplugging the system, of course.

 

11 hours ago, Yilee said:

6. I'm surprised that no one else came forward as having the same problem with the way my EAM scheduled custom scans were behaving. Please let me know if QA finds anything. Otherwise, I will just wait for the next delayed release.

I haven't received a response from QA yet. I'll let you know when I do.

 

11 hours ago, Yilee said:

7. Lastly, why can't Emsisoft (for a fee) just release a version for Win7 that keeps the EAM components in a static state and just provide definition updates and tweaks???

Because it's a form of false security. All we'd be doing is setting up a situation where hundreds (if not thousands) of our customers stay on an insecure setup where they will eventually be compromised, and we'll be the ones to blame when it happens because we sold them false hope that they didn't have to upgrade to stay safe.

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@GT500  Going back to your comment about deferral of updates: " Microsoft generally gives people up to a year and a half before they become mandatory" ...   My impression is that what MS do keeps changing, making it quite hard for people to stay on top of terminology changes etc.  For example see:

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/windows-10-and-the-disappearing-sac-t/ba-p/199747   (I know that's quite an old article)

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3447877/the-difference-between-defer-updates-pause-updates-and-delay-updates-and-what-happens-with-win10-19.html  (Oct 2019)

 

You also mentioned imaging software - which do you use?  

 

Also: AMD cpus...   Very very few laptops have them, presumably because they are power hungry, thus worse battery life.   

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18 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

My impression is that what MS do keeps changing, making it quite hard for people to stay on top of terminology changes etc.

Microsoft does make periodic changes, but that's because they've realized they need to do things better over the years. They aren't forcing anyone to install feature updates right away anymore, and it's doubtful that they will start doing that in the future.

 

19 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

You also mentioned imaging software - which do you use?

I have Acronis True Image 2020 installed. It's Anti-Ransomware feature may not be compatible with EAM, so I have it turned off (it disables the service automatically when you toggle off the feature in the UI), and I have it excluded in EAM.

 

19 hours ago, JeremyNicoll said:

Also: AMD cpus...   Very very few laptops have them, presumably because they are power hungry, thus worse battery life.

From the information I've seen, battery life is better with AMD CPU's. My new Ryzen 7 3800X uses about 100W to 150W (depending on what's running) less than my old Core i7 4770K, and that's with the same video card and hard drives.

Not many OEM computers tend to have AMD processors due to deals with Intel, although that does appear to be changing.

If you want to see a comparison of a couple of similar laptops (one with an AMD Ryzen and one with an Intel CPU), then Linus Tech Tips did a video review a few months ago where they mention power usage and battery life along with performance:

 

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Battery-wise, I think it was this review that made me think AMD was more power-hungry: https://uk.pcmag.com/ultrabooks/124866/amd-ryzen-7-vs-intel-core-i7-microsoft-surface-laptop-cpu-face-off

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The Ryzen processor in that review is the 3780U, and that appears to be based on Zen+ (second generation Ryzen) instead of Zen 2 (third generation Ryzen). When the 4000 series comes out, those will be based on Zen 2 just like the 3800X that I have.

AMD is supposed to be announcing Zen 3 early this year as well, so it promises to be an interesting year for CPU technology (or at least the hardware reviewers seem to be excited about it).

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